Tuesday, August 25, 2009Pragmatics vs Validation
Is code validation important in web design?
Something I've noticed recently which makes me wonder about people's understanding of how web design works is the designer/developer obsession with validation. I'm definitely not the first to realise this (i'm pretty sure i read an article not so long ago at jeffcroft.com - where Jeff made the same point), but i've been surfing the web a bit this weekend, and noticed how rampant this issue really is.
Validation of web sites is a good goal(a best practice), however it is not something that requires you to put a badge on your site.. or a link saying that you are CSS2.1 valid. Customers, clients etc don't care... they care about whether or not your web site works (preferably in all browsers).
Valid code is something all web designers ought to be producing, but you shouldn't put a badge up on the site.. it's like putting a badge that says "MY WEB SITE WORKS" - of course it does, the person reading your little badge is viewing the page. This site validated while I was building it, but i think now the CSS is technically invalid (i use the opacity: property a bit). But when a site i build is valid, I'm not screaming it from the rooftops, what if something I add breaks the validation later? Besides.. I take it as a given that a site I produce will validate (at least the XHTML - I sometimes use similar CSS hacks to save time.. shrug).
It comes down to a question of pragmatics. In any real world project there comes a time where you have to sacrifice what you KNOW is best in order to meet deadlines and budgets. This is how the world works, and as a freelancer it is painfully apparent. When I used to work in studios, for other people, I found i was a little more like the standard designer/ostrich - always sticking my head in the sand. Web sites serve a purpose, a client uses them to fulfil a business need, NOT to show off some application of technology.
View Printer Friendly Version
Email Article to Friend
Reader Comments (27)
mate i totally agree with you. most of the ppl that put their w3c valid badge on it are shit web designers fullstop. its a guide and if you had to follow it to a T then you'd lose alot of cool functionality that use css hacks.
good article, and love your site design too. nice angles!
Hey mate... Nice to see a shout from brissy.
Went and had a look at your site too, i really like it nice and professional, perfect for the area/work you do ;) and the backgrounds are cute.
Regarding CSS hacks.. you're right.. but at the same time, despite the agressiveness of my rant.. i suppose i think it's still a good idea to *think* about valid code... just not to make it your aim in life ;)
Hello Alex,
I have to disagree, from my experience with the company I currently work for, customer expectation and understanding of standards and validation is very much at the forefront of their requirements and minds. This is true for small startups all the way through to corporate businesses with which we deal with. To this end, we have experimented with 'badges of honor' and without, and there is a marked difference in how clients/customers communicate with us, therefor one can only assume that joe business is starting to expect certain standards from web/new media development firms and also rejecting/favour less, companies who don't promote such standards and values on their sites.
Regardless of personal taste stating that your business works to standards and validates the generated code doesn't hurt the potential customer, after all, within the food industry for example we expect food to taste good, yet this thought is reinforced/stated with the marketing and advertising materials.
As such, I don't believe that business are as shallow as to only care about the end product working. We would be fool hardy and silly to expect that from the very businesses that ultimately pay our wages and put food on our family tables.
Geoff
Hey Geoff.. I suppose maybe this would depend on the industry in question. I've not found a client outside the web industry who **actually** understands what it means to have a CSS2.1 Validated web site. Without a thorough understanding of web standards and web design in general I think you'll find that most clients are just regurgitating buzzwords. The cynic in me wants to say that Joe Business is usually just using terminology to make himself feel and look like he knows what he's talking about.
But what you've said kind of highlights what i'm getting at. Clients **shouldn't** care about valid code.. any more than when you get your appendix out you should care what kind of stitches the doctor uses to close up the wound.
As for your experience with and without badges (like i mentioned before, it would depend on the client's industry). But there are a LOT of successful online businesses out there that don't validate.
- amazon.com: Failed validation, 1684 Errors
- google.com: Failed validation, 62 Errors
- apple.com: Failed validation, 11 Errors
You get my drift.. I'm not suggesting that these guys are doing the right thing, only that it's obviously possible to succeed without writing valid code.
Of course I'm not suggesting that valid code is BAD.. only that touting it as a **feature** is a misguided application. In an ideal world, there would be no need to put a silly badge on a website, because all websites would already be valid.
Incidentally target isn't a valid attribute on an a tag in XHTML Strict ;) but despite the invalidity of your XHTML strict.. i must say.. i really love your personal site, really nice.
_target ... duh stupid cms, thanks for pointing that out ill get it fixed asap.
back to the post however, I appreciate that sites like google amazon etc have succeeded without valid code etc, however standards and validation do have their place.
Perhaps we should agree that both sides are the argument are equally valid and badges on websites are just a personal taste :)
Agreed.
I suppose i just don't want to see the industry get to a point in a few years where every client is demanding 100% validation even though it has no *real* play on whether or not a web site succeeds.
That's not to say I don't validate my code, i'm just taking a stand with regard to making validation a feature of the service that I offer. But i'm definitely happy to agree to disagree (it's lonely up here on my soapbox ;) )
Cheers for the debate Alex,
Ill be stopping by again soon for round 2 :) ding ding
Geoff, I also disagree with you. Alex is correct.
While you're at it you might as well post that your site was developed in PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, and all your code is perfect? Why not also post something saying all your images are optimized and your copy has been spell checked? Sounds ridiculous, right? That's because it is.
This all reminds me of the net in the 90's when everyone always put something like "Best viewed at 800x600 screen resolution in Internet Explorer with 256 colors and JavaScript enabled." Ridiculous, just like posting your site validates is.
Yes, the clients might care that their site validates, but it is not necessary to actually post this on a site as a typical USER does not care or even know what the hell it means.
Alex,
You pretty much took every word out of my mouth with this particular post.
I have seen far too many web designers parade it around like it is some kind of award.
Most of our clients are not designers they are business men/women, CEOs, VPs of Marketing, etc. and care far more about functionality and layout design then they do about a sticker.
Thanks for sharing this nice article!
The post which you have udpates its very useful one about css which will help for the others to maintain there web designs
<p>We are a professional supplier of wholesale designer handbags ,wholesale gucci,please feel free to
contact us if you need fashion handbags.
Find all the latest fashion, brown handbag, celebrity gossip and leather handbags!
Different Colors And Sizes Available. </p>
We take pleasure to introduce ourselves as manufacturers and exporters of all kinds of ladies high heel shoes.We are manufacturers and exporters of all kinds of high shoes. We specialize in wedding shoes fitted with Swarovski and imitation diamond
Discount EasyTone shoes here. Reebok EasyTone wholesale. Reebok Easy Tone on sale.
Fitness shoes of MBT and Vibram Five Fingers are collected at our website. MBT Shoes on sale. MBT Shoes Clearance. You will find high-quality brand shoes at low prices.
At the first look, these might look like the Air Jordan 7 jumpman shoes that released back in 2006. But, the colorway is entirely different from the pacific’s. These 7s sports a nice and clean white leather upper. Orion blue and michael jordans shoes are evenly split onto the sole, tongue, and heel. What do you think of this latest Air Jordan VII Retro?which just so happens to be a Thursday. Thursday is an unusual day for an Air Jordan release considering that most Jordan’s are released discount jordan shoes. For now, this release date change only applies to Foot Locker, but if any other retailers follow, we will let you know. This is great news for most people, but it could be bad news for some trying to save up with two less days. Look for these July 1st at Foot Locker locations and Footlocker.com
No sport event could have been air force ones shoes than the recent 2010 World Cup. And a lot of sneaker manufacturers who put some of their designs to be in line with the event will continue to delight air jordans shoe of sneaker fanatics. To further expand on encouraging team spirit, Puma came up with the Tekkies World Cup which is available at Puma City in New York.The Air jordan sneakers shoes Infrared Pack will go done as one of the best Jordan packages when Jordan Brand is all set and done. The pack caused major mayhem on the release date as limited numbers caused people to put blood and tears into their package.
<p>Eventually women began sporting these thick framed glasses too. This was also the sunglass shop the cat glasses for women first became popular. Many people are fond of wearing these 50’s inspired sunglasses up to now, including celebrities and fashion elites.Most people are fond of sunglasses shops eyeglasses from the golden age of fashion in order to make a fashion statement while others use these styles from celebrity sunglass to compliment their current styles further.</p>
<p>Aside from colored lenses, vintage designer shades also gave way to the mirrored type of sunglasses, which were very common in the 80s. These mirrored designer sungalsses are back in style again and even made more popular than ever thanks to the celebrities who flaunt them. Dark ray ban polarized sunglasses could be used for these mirrored sunglasses as well.
</p>
When you want to know the answer such as pizza cost.How to order pizza online? How to buy papa johns paypal. or order pizza hut paypal. Please tell me.
<p>We are a professional supplier of wholesale designer handbags ,wholesale gucci,please feel free to
contact us if you need fashion handbags.
Find all the latest fashion, brown handbag, celebrity gossip and leather handbags!
Different Colors And Sizes Available. </p>
We take pleasure to introduce ourselves as manufacturers and exporters of all kinds of ladies high heel shoes.We are manufacturers and exporters of all kinds of high shoes. We specialize in wedding shoes fitted with Swarovski and imitation diamond
Discount Louis louis vuitton handbags Vuitton Handbags,Wallets & Purse louis vuitton Online Store. In
louis vuitton replica handbags the my lv replica handbags store buy designer handbags cheap Louis louis vuitton handbags Vuitton Handbags, You replica handbags best choice.louis vuitton,louis vuitton handbags,louis vuitton handbag,louis louis
vuitton handbags vuitton bags,louis vuitton bag,louis vuitton wallets,louis vuitton wallet,gucci,gucci wholesale louis vuitton
handbags handbags,gucci handbag,gucci bags,gucci bag,gucci wallets,gucci wallet,prada,prada handbags,prada handbag,prada bags,prada wholesale replica handbags bag,prada wallets,prada wallet,buy prada handbag.
815GSW0715
HD PROVIDENCE
contains interactive features available only on this format. PROVIDENCE DVD
authoring has been an expensive affair, such as PROVIDENCE DVD COLLECTION
.
Bentley GT
have become a trend in fashion circles. It is a beautiful automatic chronograph stainless steel Breitling Aeromarine
. Go to a renowned retail store of Breitling Windrider
and shop to away for your new Bentley 6.75
today.
Hogan
produces great athletic shoes in hogan donna
categories, you can pick Hogan scarpe uomo
along with give it a try. I’m not simply speaking about all skyscraping but Hogan uomo
.
Latest insanity workout dvd
insaity workoutLet you have vigor
cheap insaity workoutLet you be stronger
px90-insanitymake you healthier
Px90
px90 exercise program
Mbt shoesspecial style
Mbt safiridifferent designs
MBT ChapaPersonality
welcome to buy!thank you!
This is such a great resource you are providing. I enjoy seeing sites that understand the value of providing a prime resource for free. I really loved reading your post. Thanks!
vibram five fingers
vibram fivefingers
Vibram Five Fingers Flow
After louis vuitton
the success omega watches
of 'Vacation Story I',burberry
Crimsoune Club Christian Louboutin
launched its louis vuitton bags
next burett watches
collection louis
'Vacation Story II'watches
for the high handbag
mercury fashion show burett
levels and Christian Louboutin shoes
vacation time louis vuitton.
This season omega
cotton burberry handbag
fashion show vuitton
is the Christian Louboutin boots
fabric. Crimsoune watches
uses eco-friendly louis vuitton handbags
fabrics for replica omega watches
their collection louis vuitton handbags
to provide louis vuitton bags
comfort. The louis vuitton luggage
brand's replica louis vuitton
product louis vuitton handbags
portfolio gucci bags
serves a varied louis vuitton bags
target consumer louis vuitton shoes
group, offering louis vuitton
a varity of louis vuitton shoes
options in shirts and trousers replica louis vuitton
for men and women.
The collection louis vuitton bags
consists of shades chanel handbags
in blue, pink and green. The fashion show gucci handbags
brand uses louis vuitton wallets
the finest louis vuitton bags
quality of louis vuitton
cotton and special fashion chanel
vintage fashion ladies
washes to give fashion show
extraordinary fifa 2010
breathability to gucci handbags
the line of gucci louis vuitton
clothes. The gucci sale
garments are handbags information
a blend of handbags lady
comfort, functuinality and fashion. A line of jerseys guide
bright plaid garments adds diversity to the collection.
Women like to come from top designers and <A href="http://www.b2bsharing.com/cheap-brand-handbag-c-4322.html">wholesale discount Handbag</A>. As a cheaper and cheaper, you can over time build a fine collection of elegant bags. You can find many sites selling all the major designer <A href="http://www.b2bsharing.com/cheap-brand-handbag-c-4322.html">Cheap Brand Handbag</A> accessories. These are made of high quality, real fabric to keep as close as possible to make them original as well as all over the world welcome. Wholesale <A href="http://www.b2bsharing.com/cheap-brand-handbag-c-4322.html">Brand Handbag</A> is what every fashion-conscious women will want more than one of their wardrobe. <A href="http://www.b2bsharing.com/cheap-brand-handbag-gucci-handbag-c-4322_4332.html">Gucci Handbag</A> is a fashion accessory more than it is today no longer limited to service as the carrier of the necessities of the role. This is a must have for any woman to reflect her personality, her style complete accessories. The <A href="http://www.b2bsharing.com/cheap-brand-handbag-hermes-handbag-c-4322_4504.html">Hermes Handbag</A> actually comes in three different sizes, the oversized, large-top handle and mini and versions. Since its launch over two seasons ago, <A href="http://www.b2bsharing.com/cheap-brand-handbag-lv-handbag-c-4322_4334.html">LV Handbag</A> now gets a mini-makeover each season.
Great post but dont forget this.And when you want to know the answer such as pizza cost.How to order pizza online? How to buy papa johns paypal. or order pizza hut paypal. Please tell me.banana peppers.
Find the pizza desserts.Choose thepizza buffets.Know about pizza ingredients.Give u papa john's coupons.and dominos pizza coupons.
Such as dominos pizza.and cicis pizza.
Anster to Cicis pizza calories.pizza puns.Thanks a lot.
to amazing wedding song.and mini cooper.
diy gifts for mom.
click bots.